Management Best Practices – Page 2 – Building Pennsylvania

Building PA Podcast: Season 1 – Episode 7: Leadership, ACE Mentor Program

After Chris Martin and I launched the Building PA Podcast in April 2020 and released about 20 episodes, we were approached by a podcast consultant. This professional offered to give our podcast a listen and provide some advice to us. After he listened to this episode about the ACE Mentor Program, he said this was an excellent one, probably our best so far. He said our guest, Allison Hanna, was an energized speaker who you could tell really enjoyed talking about the topic she was invited on the show to discuss. To listen, and to see if you think her excitement is contagious, visit: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-building-pa-podcast-61501833/episode/leadership-in-construction-ace-mentoring-61532379/

Jon O’Brien (00:00):

Hello, and welcome to The Building PA Podcast, a construction industry podcast recorded right here in the great state of Pennsylvania. My name is Jon O’Brien from the Keystone Contractors Association, and joining me is Chris Martin, the other co-host from Atlas Marketing, they tell stories to people that make things. Hello, Chris, how’s it going? You ready for another great episode?

Chris Martin:

I am very excited about this episode. I understand that you’ve lined up a great person to talk about ACE Mentor. So I’m real excited about this. This is good. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jon O’Brien:

I mean the start of every year KCA surveys its membership, its contractor members. And we want to know about, you know the upcoming construction season: how much work do they anticipate? And we look a lot at employment as well. So we want to know, do you plan on hiring people this year and the results we got? I’ll share them with you right now. So from our construction company members, they, 64% expect to increase employees in the field and 35% construction companies in Pennsylvania expect to increase professionals in the office. So there sounds about online with the national average, right? Yes, absolutely. Yes. So there is a, quite a challenge for the industry to, to get the word out there and raise some awareness of these great careers in the industry. And, and there’s a lot of great groups out there. Like you touched on an ACE mentor earlier and today I’m glad to welcome. Alison Hannah. Alison is a alum of the ACE mentor program. And you want to say hello to the crowd? Alison?

Allison Hanna (01:43):

Yes. Hello everyone. Okay.

Jon O’Brien (01:45):

Yeah. We’re glad. We’re glad you could join us. I’m very glad. Thank you. You’re a engineer with Snyder security and associates.

Allison Hanna (01:54):

Yeah. Yes. I’m a landscape architect with Snyder security and associates.

Jon O’Brien (01:59):

Awesome. And you’re also the, the resident ACE expert in my eyes.

Allison Hanna (02:08):

Yeah. I think it’s a little bit on both sides of the program. So I, I know it pretty well. Yeah,

Jon O’Brien (02:13):

Absolutely. So, so for the benefit of our audience, could you kind of introduce them to ACE?

Allison Hanna (02:18):

Yes. Gladly. So ACE Mentor Program. ACE stands for Architecture, Construction and Engineering, and it is a national program. And basically, what it is, it’s an afterschool program designed to attract high school students who are interested in pursuing careers in what I mentioned before architecture, construction and engineering. And we also include skilled trades in there as well. It’s not just the people sitting in their office, so we get them involved with a little bit of the skilled trades too. So nationally there are about 70 affiliates. And then it’s operating in 37 States too. So you can see how big this program is. And we have our own chapter here in central PA and within the central PA chapter, we have programs in Dauphin County, in York County, in Lebanon, and in Lancaster, and then the County that I am, the chair of is Cumberland County, but we also include Perry County in there as well.

Allison Hanna (03:22):

So kind of my background, if I can go into that, if that’s okay.

Jon O’Brien:

Absolutely.

Allison Hanna:

Okay. So my background in the program is when I was in high school, my senior year from 2009, until 2010, I was a student in the program and this was the first year that it was offered at my high school in Cumberland Valley. And I also went to come on, Perry Vo Tech too. And my teacher told me that this program was coming in and it was kind of be good for me to go and like network with all the people there and kind of get a feel of all these different programs and different sessions that they offer to the kids. So I was like, sure, why not? I’ll go sign up. And I know they had a landscape architecture session. And when I went, I don’t think that I learned about all these different things, but when I went through it for the landscape architecture session, they had a landscape designer, like a local landscape designer come in and design residential projects.

Allison Hanna (04:17):

And in my head, I’m thinking I want to do more than just residential stuff. I want to do commercial. I want to do bigger things. So I told myself as soon as I graduated with my degree, that I was going to come back and, and be a mentor. So after like a year of graduating from college, I kind of got myself situated at home in the working professional world. And in 2015, I came in as a mentor in the Cumberland County program. And a couple of years after that, then they wanted me to kind of coordinate the Cumberland County program. So I got involved with that. And then I’m also a board member on the central PA chapter as well. Just doing a little bit of everything with ACE mentor here in central PA.

Jon O’Brien (05:00):

Absolutely. Yeah. Your efforts are awesome and appreciated. So keep it up.

Allison Hanna (05:06):

Yes. I love doing it.

Chris Martin (05:08):

Yeah. Keep it up. I like that. Can I ask you a real quick question? Alison, you mentioned that you went to Cumberland Valley. Where’d you go to college?

Allison Hanna (05:17):

I went to Temple University. Yeah. So they offer a four year degree in landscape architecture, whereas most schools it’s five years. So I just, didn’t want to spend that extra year in college. That’s why I decided to go to Temple.

Chris Martin (05:31):

That makes complete sense to me.

Allison Hanna (05:33):

Yeah. Save a little bit of money.

Chris Martin (05:37):

Yeah. Was there any assistance from ACE, either finding a college or while you’re in college, any sort of outreach or connection with ACE at all?

Allison Hanna (05:46):

Yeah. Through ACE. I mean, what I loved about it was so each session we go through, so we go through a little bit of everything between architecture, civil engineering, like I said, landscape architecture all the way down through like construction, admin and management. But we have working professionals that come in and give a brief presentation about like what they do. And then also kind of the skill set. You need to go into that field and then also do like a little work session to kind of like, get you integrated about like what you would do on like a daily like your daily work life. So during that time, I always like myself included when I was going through the program, but I always encourage the students to talk to these mentors, like network with them, get all the information you can. Cause they’ll be the people that you can go to, to ask for like a job shadow or even like an internship once you get to college and everything. Right.

Jon O’Brien (06:43):

And as far as hearing about ACE, you had mentioned that that your high school teacher had mentioned something to you about it. Is that kind of the typical route, how kids hear about it?

Allison Hanna (06:51):

Yeah. Mainly what we do at least in Cumberland County is we reach out to all of the all the schools in Cumberland and Perry County, their guidance counselors, career counselors, and they get the information out to the students or if they have particular teachers that they know that they know or like related to those fields, they will contact those teachers. And those teachers will get the word out to the kids. Yeah. My particular instance was at Vo Tech my teacher there, she knew I wanted to go into landscape architecture and she heard the program was just starting. So she wanted me to get involved with it.

Chris Martin (07:27):

Are there any challenges when it comes to running a program, it sounds pretty complex and it could cause you’re in all these different counties and all these different mentors are needed. So what are some challenges?

Allison Hanna (07:39):

Yes. I think our major challenge is definitely getting mentors to come and donate their time. I know it’s a little hard for some mentors to show up week after week, which I don’t expect mentors to show up every single week. Cause our program does run from like the middle of October all the way to the middle of March. So I know it could be a big commitment. But as long as you can come for just a couple of the sessions, especially like our work sessions that we have with the kids to really get them to know about what field and like the field that they’re going into and how it relates back to the big overall project that we have the kids work on. So each year we have like a different almost like a set project for the kids.

Allison Hanna (08:26):

So this year in Cumberland County, there is a project in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania that we’re working on, that the kids in architecture get to design the architecture of the building, the students in civil engineering will get to actually design the site and figure out the parking. And if they want to get into stormwater, if they can do that too. And my kids that are interested in landscape architecture, I make them pick plants and kind of figure out native versus non native and just like little things like that, that you would get to do on a daily basis at work.

Jon O’Brien (08:57):

Do you know of any sort of feedback or data that shows the positives of the ACE mentor?

Allison Hanna (09:03):

I personally, I don’t, but what I love about the program is that I see kids coming back year after year. It’s not just like a one year you do it and you’re done. We have had many, many students come back year after year. It goes through the program. Cause you learn something new each year. And I learned something new each year, cause it’s not like we have the same mentors that come back each year, some years we have different mentors that can help out cause the other mentor the previous year that has time restraints and everything. I mean I learned something new each year and I always encourage the kids to not just make this a one year and done thing like come back next year. It’s gonna be beneficial to you.

Jon O’Brien (09:47):

Have you also seen students come back after they graduate college? Have you seen any other alumni?

Allison Hanna (09:53):

Hmmm not in Cumberland County and I think because I’ve only been involved in since 2015 that hopefully in these next couple of years, I’ll start seeing some of the kids that I knew when I was going to mentor program come back. But I know in other central PA programs, I think in Dauphin County, they also have kids that were students come back and be a mentor there for the program, which is great news. We love that. Cause it definitely helps the other mentors that have come in and aren’t exactly sure about the program and it’s always good to have those people that went through the program, actually know how you feel when you sit there and you listen to the mentors talk the whole entire time and you kind of see like what works and what doesn’t.

Chris Martin (10:42):

Coming from the student’s side, Alison your experience is from the vocational technical side. Are you seeing that? Are you seeing that also for current students now? Are they coming more from the vo-tech vocational technical side or, you know, the, the general population,

Allison Hanna (11:01):

It feels like at least for Cumberland County, we have a lot more coming from just like the normal high school. We have very few that come from the vo-tech, which is unfortunate. Cause I kind of, I mean, being an alumni there too, I would like to see more of that because what I enjoyed about it was even though when I was going through vo-tech I got that experience, but we didn’t get like working professionals insights. Like we would get working professionals that would come in, but every single week, same working professionals, I’m learning about all these different career fields that you will have to work with you and you have to work with everybody getting that side was invaluable.

Allison Hanna (11:43):

Yeah. And I would imagine too, having the ability to work with a diverse way of thinking you know, not just you know, traditional high school approach or, you know, the, the VoTech, the vocational technical side has a little bit of a different way to look at things. So that’s going to be an advantage.

Chris Martin:

Yeah. Well, on that note are you typically seeing from your perspective and again, in your experience, who are the mentors? What are you looking for in a mentor so that they can, you know, people can or know, our listeners can look at it and say, Hey, this is something I need to get involved in. So from that mentoring perspective, what do you look for?

Allison Hanna (12:29):

Any mentor that has the willingness and wants to come in and talk to the kids. Sometimes we get mentors that just kind of show up and like sit in the back of the room, which is fine. Like we just need people there, but I love the mentors that can go up and talk to the kids, really get to know them and just teach them about what they do. So having like a person who will mentor, I just hold onto them and I try to keep them coming around year after year.

Chris Martin (12:54):

I don’t blame you. I’m like, no, I’ve done some mentoring myself. And I’ve always found that experience has been very helpful. You know, the longterm value of mentoring. Do you feel that it’s probably one of the challenges that you’re running into?

Allison Hanna (13:25):

Maybe I don’t understand your question. I’m sorry.

Chris Martin (13:27):

That’s okay. Like are you saying that, you know, the mentors that are coming in and are almost kind of expecting this, you know, immediate gratification versus the fact that, you know, they’re helping high school age students figure out where they want to go and kind of the return on that and time investment, if you will, is going to be probably five, 10, maybe even 15 years down the road. Do you see that as a challenge?

Allison Hanna (13:57):

Definitely. I think for the mentors that come in for maybe just one session, they’re not exactly understanding the whole process of ACE, right? So, I mean, we start from October and we go until March. So they get weeks upon weeks of learning all these different fields. And you have some kids that are interested in certain aspects. So you have kids that are really interested in architecture and that’s early on. And then they kind of slowly throughout like the sessions, they just lose interest. But once we get back to the work sessions, kind of near the end, that’s when their excitement builds back up. So when you have that architecture kid, whenever we’re kind of near the end and they’re listening to electrical and they’re like, Ugh, I don’t like this just isn’t as exciting, but when they come back from the work sessions, especially for me, cause I mean, I see these kids week after week and I see how like, I can see how differently they act and seeing them doing the work sessions. And then when they have to do their final presentation at the end and like that little light bulb goes off in their head, it just makes it all worth it. And having those mentors there as they go through the whole thing, they understand it.

Chris Martin (15:01):

Yeah. That that’s good to hear. So what I’m taking from you is give it a chance if you’re considering being a mentor you know, the instant gratification is if this is a longterm game versus a short term game.

Allison Hanna (15:16):

Yeah. And especially when you have those certain kids throughout the sessions that come up to you and ask you those questions. I mean, I personally grasp onto these kids too, and I want to see them do well. And even a couple of kids, like I’ll talk to them even after they go through the program and graduate and are off to college. Like if they have questions, they can always come back and ask me questions.

Chris Martin (15:36):

Yeah. And to that point, do you find that the kids are engaging from that perspective?

Allison Hanna (15:42):

Oh yeah. Cause I think they know, I think they understand that we’re there to help them and we’re there to guide them. Cause it’s not always an easy process trying to figure out what you want to do. And then also deciding on top of it, like where you want to go to school and the past to get a job around the area, if you still want to stay here. So that’s what I want these kids to get out of the program that we’re not just there to kind of teach them just that session. We’re there for as long as they let us.

Jon O’Brien (16:13):

Well, that’s good though. I had a question and I forgot it. Well, as you know, I’ve been around ACE for around 10 years now, dating back to my Pittsburgh days. And when Pittsburgh launched its ACE mentor chapter and, and when I moved here, ACE national contacted the board in central PA and so I continue to be a fan. And I constantly pound that drum beat the drum about the mentors do not get enough recognition.

Allison Hanna (16:46):

They do not you’re right.

Jon O’Brien (16:49):

Yes. So that’s my goal is to get more recognition for all of you mentors, to not only encourage you guys to do more and get more involved, but then to draw more into the program.

Allison Hanna (17:02):

Yes we are. We are always looking for more mentors, mentors. There’s never enough.

Jon O’Brien (17:07):

Yeah, absolutely. So any, any ideas, suggestions, I’ll keep doing what I can to help, but don’t hesitate to ask us at all. And maybe this program, this episode can help too.

Allison Hanna (17:19):

Yeah, I sure hope so.

Jon O’Brien (17:21):

Yeah. And to that point, Alison, how, you know, I was in Pittsburgh, but now in central Pennsylvania and obviously, how can a listener to our episode get involved? Is there a place they can go? Can I call you, help our listeners out?

Allison Hanna (17:40):

Yeah. So the easiest way to go about finding more information about ACE mentor and also how to contact anybody in your area is go to ACE. So it’s www.ACEmentor.org and there’s tons of information there. It’s just general knowledge about ACE mentor, how students can get involved also mentors and volunteers. And then even in that mentors and volunteers section, there’s a nice little map of the United States and it takes you to different sections in the United States and you can click on different affiliates and then it has all of their contact information there.

Jon O’Brien (18:15):

Great. That will definitely help. Absolutely. Yeah. We’ll make sure to spread the word too after the podcast we’ll blast that info out as well. Yeah. So question for you, Alison, what has been your, your greatest experience or effort to date with mentoring?

Allison Hanna (18:41):

Hmm. I think personally, I just really loved working with the students. I feel like that’s my bread and butter of this whole thing. As much as I love working with the mentors I really love working with the students and just seeing them from day one, when they come into our orientation session and them thinking that they want to do one thing, like they have their mind and heart set on them wanting to do this one aspect of the ACE career field. And they start going through all these sessions and they learn more and then they start realizing that’s not exactly what they thought that was about. And they learn so much more about other disciplines and then they changed their mind and then they start working with the mentors more. And I feel like that’s my favorite part is seeing these kids, like when the light bulb goes on in their head and they realize that maybe what they thought they wanted to do, wasn’t exactly what they originally thought. And then just going into their final presentation and just, I don’t know. I just love seeing that little light bulb moment and them kind of glowing when they realize that, yes, this is what I want to do. That’s great. And even the kids that come in, even the kids that come in and they think they want to do something in these fields and then they come out thinking, Oh, I don’t want to do any of this. I’m fine with that too. That’s why we’re here. Yeah.

Chris Martin (20:05):

Awesome stuff. That is great. That is fantastic. Well Alison is anything else you’d like to talk about while we’re still here?

Allison Hanna (20:17):

I think that’s one thing I want to add is if you’re thinking about becoming a mentor, just come out to one of the sessions talk to the leaders, talk to the other mentors there, talk to the students. It’s so rewarding and I just wish there was more people that will come out and well, like Jon said, we’ll do our part. We’ll try to get as many people out there to focus on ACE mentoring and, and hopefully we’ll help that achieve it. We can do it.

Chris Martin (20:44):

Yeah. We can all do it. Yeah. Nothing wrong with giving back. Right.

Allison Hanna (20:50):

Oh, there is nothing wrong with that at all.

Jon O’Brien (20:51):

Yeah. Good. Well Alison on behalf of building PA podcasts, I want to say thanks for joining us.

Allison Hanna (21:01):

So thank you for having me.

Chris Martin (21:02):

Thank you so much. This was awesome. Very thorough. I loved it. Yeah. Very thorough. And as Jon has said in previous episodes, we’ll be following up with you in a few months and have you come back and maybe we could build upon this conversation and really help our listeners see you in the future and where ACE mentoring is headed.

Allison Hanna (21:25):

I would love that in a couple of months, we will be done with our Cumberland County session so I can come back with a report of all of my students.

Jon O’Brien (21:32):

Fantastic. Thank you so much.

Allison Hanna (21:34):

You are welcome. Thank you for having me.

Building PA Podcast: Season 1 – Episode 6: CASPA Law Discussion

Back in 2016, when I moved back to central PA, I was welcomed with open arms by the KCA Board – awesome people, so thankful these amazing and friendly people are in my life and my family’s life. Outside of the KCA Board, I was fortunate to meet such great industry people like Michael Metz-Topodas. Michael’s an awesome dude and I’m glad to call him my friend. It’s crazy to think us two PA people could have met in 1990s when I was living in Norfolk, Va and he was living across the Bay-Bridge tunnel in Hampton Roads, VA. Regardless of when we met, I’m glad it happened.

Michael is a wealth of construction contract knowledge. Give this podcast a read below with this transcript or click to hear him educate Chris Martin and me:https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-building-pa-podcast-61501833/episode/business-of-construction-caspa-law-61532373/

Chris Martin (00:00):

Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Building Pennsylvania Podcast. I’m Chris Martin with Atlas Marketing

Jon O’Brien:

And I’m Jon O’Brien from the Keystone Contractors Association.

Chris Martin:

And today we are going to be talking with Michael Metz-Topodas of Cohen Seglias, and we are going to be talking primarily and asking Michael’s input on CASPA law and how that affects contractors throughout the Commonwealth. Michael, thanks for being here. Yeah. Welcome Michael.

Michael Metz-Topodas (00:40):

Yeah, it was great to be here. Appreciate it guys.

Chris Martin (00:43):

Thank you. I know we have a lot of questions, so let’s dive in here. And Jon, I know you wanted to lead with the first one, so let’s go from there.

Jon O’Brien:

Yeah. Michael, how about we start real basic. And how about just kind of explaining what is CASPA? The Construction & Subcontractor Payment Act.

Michael Metz-Topodas (01:05):

Exactly. Jon said it best the Contractor & Subcontractor Payment Act. Generally speaking is a statute in Pennsylvania. It applies to private projects and it outlines a certain requirements regarding payment to both contractors and subcontractors. In particular, it allows for either contractors or subcontractors to obtain additional relief beyond what they might be able to get in the contract or under Pennsylvania contract law, additional relief where those contractors or subcontractors have not been paid under the terms and conditions of their contracts in particular. It allows for an additional 1% interest penalty per month or sorry, 1% yearly interest that’s calculated per month on any unpaid balance and as well, one of the most aggressive features of it is it allows for a contractor or subcontractor who has not been paid to recover its legal fees for any litigation or other legal action that needs to take to get itself paid. That’s generally what the statute does. There are a lot of details that it provides for us to how you go about that. But in essence, it was created to protect contractors and subcontractors to give a little extra ammunition for them to make sure that they’re paid for work performed on a project. And that should be work that is undisputed with respect to the amount of what is paid.

Jon O’Brien (02:40):

You lead us off here. We’re setting a nice foundation there, cause we’re talking a little CASPA today. Michael, did an awesome job there. And as both, you know, Chris and Michael, as you both know, KCA does a lot with politics in the Harrisburg state Capitol. And it seems as though with CASPA every few years, this issue pops up and there’s a movement of foot amongst the construction industry to kind of tweak CASPA a little bit and improve it. And one of those tweakings came along last session and House Bill 566 came, which passed through the legislature and Governor Wolf signed as Act 27. And are you you’re pretty well versed on that, on that piece of legislation. Aren’t you Michael, you want to touch on that for a little bit.

Michael Metz-Topodas (03:35):

Yeah, no doubt. As, as most of the construction bar was certainly well attuned to what was going on with the changes to CASPA we saw it coming and we all eagerly awaited back in October of 2018 when that bill became law after it was signed a few months earlier it was certainly an interesting and compelling change to how CASPA was structured. I believe it came out of you know, a push from some of the subcontractors to afford them the opportunity to recover and still enjoy the benefits of CASPA because there they were being pushed in certain instances to forego some of the rights that they may have otherwise had. There are several changes that the law created for CASPA, but I really will only focus on the three major ones that became the focus of a lot of the literature and a lot of the discussions that the bar had regarding the changes. The first one involved waiver essentially the statute provided that any contract that asks or purports to have an agreement by a contractor or a subcontractor to waive that entities rights under CASPA, that provision, no matter how many times people agreed to it, signed it initially at whatever is null and void and unenforceable under Pennsylvania law.

Michael Metz-Topodas (05:06):

So that was the first revision there and made it easy for contractors and subcontractors with regarding those provisions, because they could sign the contract and not have to worry about waiving their CASPA rights cause it’s unenforceable. And it’s one less thing to negotiate. You know, during the course of ramping up to getting started on a job the second provision, the second change that the Act amended CASPA render concerned on concern suspension of work for either contractors or subcontractors. And it outlined a schedule that was sort of the floor by which a contractor or subcontractor could effectively suspend work. Oftentimes construction contracts will have provisions that require a subcontractor or a contractor to keep on working despite disputes about payment. This change though, is to make sure that if it’s an undisputed amount then a subcontractor would not have to keep, you know, essentially working for free or, or financing a job.

Michael Metz-Topodas (06:10):

That’s sort of the complaint you hear often from those in the industry, you know, I keep working on financing the job. And so these provisions now allow for a contractor or subcontractor to walk away only a certain procedures are followed. So first you have to wait for the billing period and the payment due date to expire. So at 30 days past the payment due date, a contractor or subcontractor can send written notice to the owner or to the general contractor form it as an agreement notifying that entity that payment has not been received at that point. However, the contractor or subcontractor still has to keep on working and another 30 days needs to go by at which point a second notice would be sent. Now, I certainly recommend that those notices identify the amount owed and identify all the 30 days has passed, identify the statutory provisions.

Michael Metz-Topodas (07:08):

And then also remind you the contractor or the owner that if payment is not received that in accordance with CASPA, work would be suspended. So after the second 30 days, you send a second notice providing all of the information I talked about earlier, as well as notifying the recipient that after another 10 days of nonpayment the contract or subcontract will have a right to suspend work and we’ll exercise that route. Right. and importantly to that second notice must also go to the owner. That’s in particular for subcontractors, obviously the general contractor is already going to be notifying the owner, but for subcontractors, they make sure the owner gets a copy of that second notice for obvious reasons an owner doesn’t want to see its project appended or, or paused for any reason, especially if it can make sure that just by putting a little pressure on the general contractor can keep the project moving along.

Michael Metz-Topodas (08:05):

And then as well as you can see, there’s an obvious benefit to the subcontractors too. So these are the procedures that somebody out in the field needs to follow in order to make sure that they can properly suspend work on a project for nonpayment of again, undisputed amounts. You can have this schedule short and I called it a floor earlier. You can have it shortened by way of contractual agreement, but you can not have it lengthened. So any contract that has terms and conditions that lengthen any of these periods for notice and suspension, they too would be null and void under CASPA. And therefore it would default to what is provided for the statute, the final major change that the admitted CASPA concerned with holding of amounts out an owner or a contractor can withhold amounts from the general contractor or a subcontractor for deficient work.

Michael Metz-Topodas (09:10):

However now under the new CASPA that owner or general contractor must provide a notice of the withholding and an explanation for the reason for the withholding and must do so from within 14 days of the decision to withhold, that applies irrespective of what other contracts or requirements might be. And also in terms of whatever payment schedule might be there. So once the decisions made about withholding there needs to be a notice provided if however, the owner or the general contractor fails to provide this notice then the right to withhold is waived and the payment must be made. So that’s a very important provision. It serves two functions, one, it allows the subcontractor or the general contractor, whomever it may apply whatever the case may be. It allows that entity to correct any work that might be deficient or address the reason for the withholding and as well it ensures that if an owner isn’t conscientious and just withholds the money, but it doesn’t have a good reason or cannot provide one.

Michael Metz-Topodas (10:23):

Then there, isn’t an unnecessary dispute over arbitrary withholdings and that the parties get a, that this isn’t used as leverage over a contractor or subcontractor for their work on the project. I know a lot of that gets, you know, down into the weeds as to how all of these things operate. And it’s really, we’ve given even a very you know precise recitation as to how these provisions operate. I think though that anybody out in the field can see that with all of these measures in place it changes the dynamic as to how a project would proceed. And it gives a great deal of advantage to contractors and subcontractors in the event that they are denied payment, that they are otherwise entitled to. And so it affords that, you know, money is flowing properly that there aren’t suspensions of payments you know, for reasons that aren’t justified and ensures that a project moves efficiently in a manner that’s beneficial to everyone.

Chris Martin (11:26):

Very, very thoroughly explained there. Thank you, Michael, for that, for the third item, though, the withholding that does that notice have to be written, or can that be an oral statement from the owner and or GC? I know that’s written notice written. Okay. Yeah. Just thoughts. I just wanted to make sure about that. And then as far as the suspension of work, there’s quite a few notices that you mentioned. So if you max out on all of those notices, you’re getting close to a hundred days, I believe, right.

Michael Metz-Topodas (12:02):

It could be that long, depending upon, you know, how the payment schedules are set up in the original agreement. Yes. And that was one of the critiques that was brought out. And some people said, well, wait a second. Yeah, that’s terrific. I can suspend work, but my goodness, you know, it’d be so long. I might already be done with my work. If you’re an excavator on a small project, you might be done by the time it comes time to suspend. So yeah, so the one hand there’s a certain benefit, but that practical consideration was noted that that said, Jon, there is a possibility that those who do have a shorter timeframe for work on a project could negotiate perhaps a more favorable schedule. It just depends upon whether it’s worth it to the subcontractor. And that really comes down to a business decision, but I’m glad you asked that question because it really gets down into the intersection as to what the law provides and then how it really operates for guys out in the field. Those sometimes can be two different things.

Jon O’Brien (12:57):

Yeah. You mentioned the site work. I was thinking that as well for the site work, but then also as far as the small, you know, mom and pop shops that get in there might do a little interior work and they’re done in a week or so, you know, their works long gone. And they’re the people that probably need this law the most. And they have to wait for a long amount of time like that. So I’m just thinking out loud here.

Michael Metz-Topodas (13:20):

Well, they might have to wait, but I think the other point is it just might not apply to them. And I think that’s what you’re getting at as well. And it’s a good point is okay, fine. Then they can suspend their work. They finish it and they move on all the other protections that cast before it’s remain. And so if there’s no dispute from the owner about that, the workers performing the money is owed, and for whatever reason that owner or general contractor doesn’t want to pay, they’re going to be subject to that 1% penalty among others. And as well, subject to attorney’s fees for the collection, if it’s a small enough amount, those attorney’s fees could be a substantial portion of the amount. You know, that entity is that business is seeking to get paid. And, that’s a great advantage to allow those small mom and pop shops, Jon, because you know, oftentimes those entities would forgo their rights and just say, well, I can’t go, I agree. You go for that money. It’ll cost me too much money to get what I’m seeking. Well, now, if you know that you’re protected by, but then you can go after the money you’re entitled to. So in that respect you know, cast was original provisions are the ones that are for some of the best protection.

Jon O’Brien (14:26):

Yeah. Good point. Good point there, Michael. Yeah. Also, I mean the law just recently went into effect this year. I believe. I don’t have the exact date, but it’s probably too early to tell any sort of actual feedback, you know, in the field feedback, have you heard anything at all?

Michael Metz-Topodas (14:43):

You know, we really haven’t, I’m kind of surprised by that. The issue of the suspension just hasn’t come up typically. We often advise our clients to continue to keep working on a project only because suspension and again, I mean, look, Jon, you got us right back to the, I think that the key point, which is the law can have its provisions, but what really happens in the field could be different. And that is that if a subcontractor or a contractor decides to suspend for nonpayment, if for whatever reason that entity, that business guesses wrong. And they did not have justification for suspending work, let’s say they were not entitled to the payment that that business was seeking. Then that entity would be liable for all the delay damages, the damages that flow from that suspension. So you gotta be careful now, granted, if it’s, you know, if it’s clear on the project that looked the work was done, there were no objections and then people moved on and, and accepted it then.

Michael Metz-Topodas (15:46):

Yes. I think go ahead and suspend it and not worry about any of the delays. But if there’s any dispute about that or any uncertainty, then you just need to calculate that risk. And the liability that could flow from that even so, you know a measured and calculated suspension you know, could be another way to make sure that payment properly flows. But again, as you point out with that kind of long period there, sometimes the work required it might be long gone long done and completed before that suspension period ever arises.

Jon O’Brien (16:19):

Yeah, that’s true. My favorite is whenever I find myself in the halls lobbying for bills like this and the various subgroups come up to me and they say, you know, if we could only work for your GCs all the time, we wouldn’t have to do measures like this, you know? And I’m like, yeah, but when we do measures like this, you know, we have to change the way we operate just to make sure we’re abiding by the new law and the new contract.

Michael Metz-Topodas (16:48):

Oh, that’s such a great point only because I don’t know, I know we, you and I have talked about this. Others may not know, but before becoming a lawyer, I was a teacher. And one of the things I learned as a teacher in terms of making rules or policy for people is you gotta make your rules for the worst kid in class, not the best kid in class, unfortunately. So good to see the same rule applies in legislation, right? Absolutely.

Chris Martin:

And that’s a good point, Michael. Michael, I have a question for you. So clearly you have a solid understanding of this law and really know how it, how it works, but if I’m a contractor or a subcontractor, what’s the process that I have to go through to actually make a claim or file under the, under the legislation. If I feel like I’m not being paid accordingly.

Michael Metz-Topodas (17:43):

That’s a great question Chris. And it’s actually a very pointed and almost obscure legal question. We have this debate in the hallways of our firm all the time. I’ll give you the short layman’s answer first, and then maybe we can get to some of the technicalities legally call your lawyer. And that started there. Quite honestly thankfully there, unlike the mechanics lien law, CASPA was a little more forgiving and doesn’t have quite the stringent requirements as to what you need to do to operate under it, separate apart from some of the withholding and suspension provisions. We already talked about any time we file, for example, our firm, we filed complaints against either general contractors or not paying our owners who are not paying we’ll include a breach of contract claim. We’ll include a casebook claim. And we’ll just do it as a matter of course assuming that there’s an undisputed amount for which payment is owed and I can get into later if you guys are curious to why I keep saying undisputed amount, but that’s, that’s a separate issue.

Michael Metz-Topodas (18:43):

But there is this sort of a stylistic debate as to whether you even need to have a separate CASPA account, and you can just put the CASPA damages as part of the breach of contract either way. The way to bring in the way they get recovery under CASPA is to, by bringing legal action. You could arguably, if you have an owner or a general contractor who is not paying, you could just make a request or a demand letter, a demand for that payment and ask for the CASPA damages. But I can’t see to any owner to GCs, we’re going to cough up the interest in attorney’s fees, unless there’s a court order, making them do it. So going to courts the only way and very often to you know, you’ll follow that legal action and then find some sort of settlement you know, that will account for some of those costs, but damages, if you can, otherwise just their mere existence are enough to drive people, to finding a way of resolving a dispute.

Chris Martin (19:37):

Perfect. Thanks, Michael. Yep. No problem. And that’s good for, for our listeners so that they understand, and I kind of figured the first response was going to be call your lawyer cause that’s what I would be doing too. So another question for you in your experience, is there a typical contracting category for that that typically has to fight for this, this form of payment? You know, you mentioned an excavator earlier, you know, like maybe there’s a, is it, do you typically see this in like tile contractors or, you know, residential versus commercial, like help us understand where the, that typically happens.

Michael Metz-Topodas (20:24):

I haven’t made any formal study as to any sort of percentages of that would be a fascinating question to see you know, it’d be a twofold analysis. Who’s not getting paid and then who’s bringing CASPA claims and they’re not always coextensive with each other. That’s not always the same group of people. But certainly I think as we all know, they’re the pressure flows downhill, if you will. And so very often we see a lot of subcontractors, you know, guys who are sort of towards the bottom of the food chain, if you will. Well, I should say the contractual chain only by way of just their positioning on a project. They sometimes fail

Michael Metz-Topodas (21:03):

Certain amount of pressure in terms of, you know, not being able, not receiving the payments promptly or, or payments that are owed or an attempt to try to leverage negotiation from the original amount agreed upon for work perform. And so that, that tends to be yeah. How it will play out. I think really to give a full answer to that Chris would be the subject of a whole another podcast. We actually, as a firm, do a whole presentation on all the things that occur on a project where there are pressure points applied to subcontractors to trim if you will, the amount they otherwise expected to collect for the work performed based on the agreement they have. So it’s a really complicated dance that occurs throughout the life of project. I have also seen instances where owners sometimes just are paying or a dispute them an amount of work. I think also to CASPA tends to come into play on some of the smaller projects only because it’s such a great mechanism to help obtaining payment obtaining payment where there’s, you know, you otherwise might think twice about going down a legal Avenue to obtain recovery.

Michael Metz-Topodas (22:17):

I think the other thing to your point in all of this, I know we’re going a little bit of a tangent here, but because a lot of these issues arise throughout the life of a project. I do have to repeat my warning earlier as to calling your attorney early and often only because this case was definitely a situation or any kind of payment issue on a project where I announced that prevention is worth a pound of cure and early intervention can sometimes be very effective, even if your lawyer’s in the shadows and unknown to the other parties of the involvement. I can provide some effective advice on how to proceed, you know, through the course of a project little field from what you originally asked. But I think it was such a good question that it inspired a lot of that additional information. So thank you, Chris. I appreciate that. That’s good. That’ll help your listeners here in the Building Pennsylvania podcast. So that’s great.

Chris Martin (23:06):

There we go. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Metz-Topodas (23:08):

I would I know we’ve had a rather technical and detailed discussion here about CASPA and some people might find it overwhelming. And maybe just a lot of detail. And I know certainly there’s a culture and an ethic of look, let’s just get the job done. And I don’t disagree with that. I think at the end of the day that’s what makes our industry great is that there’s that focus on you know rolling up our sleeves if you’ll permit the cliche and putting up buildings and structures that people can use and, things that workers take pride in. But that said it’s always a shame to me when I see people, businesses sometimes, you know, businesses that have been within families for years, generations, et cetera, being shortchanged, any amount of money. And so there are ways of doing both of our roll up our sleeves and getting the job done, but also making sure that you don’t get short changed.

Michael Metz-Topodas (24:06):

And that’s what I mean again, earlier about early intervention with your council. We take calls all the time at our firm from people who are, you know, midway through a project, Hey, what do I do? And we offer the guidance to say, okay, here’s the end game. Let’s see what we can do about today. So we can safeguard your rights for later on tomorrow. And you can go back to doing what you do best. And that is like I said getting the job done. So that’s our role and that’s our philosophy. And we’ve been doing it coincidentally us for, for 30 years. I’ve been honored to be a part of this firm for now since 2014. And I love every minute of it. For a lot of those reasons you guys know as well as I do, we have a great industry full of great people. It couldn’t be more fun.

Jon O’Brien (24:52):

Absolutely well said.

Chris Martin (24:54):

Well, well said, I agree with you. That’s a great way to end it. And thank you for your time and definitely the technical information. Very good information.

Jon O’Brien (25:07):

I just want to remind everyone out there. This is a new law. There’s going to be a lot more questions. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Michael is a resource. But Michael, you want to toss your, your contact info out real quick.

Michael Metz-Topodas (25:19):

Oh, Jon, thank you so much. As you can tell, I kind of like talking about this stuff and I see each other at a lot of KCA events and he probably has always seen me quartering poor guys, lecturing them about everything. So it’s all good. It’s all good. It’s over a cold beer. So it makes it even better, but no, in all seriousness my contact information is on the web at our website. www.cohenseglias.com. I invite anyone and everyone to reach out at any time with any questions, always happy to talk shop about this. I’m always happy to help people out in the industry. As you can probably tell I love our industry. I love being a lawyer and I love helping people.

Jon O’Brien (26:04):

Well, thanks for the education. And I look forward to seeing you at the next KCA event,

Michael Metz-Topodas (26:08):

Jon, thank you for the opportunity to speak to the industry.

Chris Martin (26:10):

Thanks, Mike. And thank you for listening to the Building Pennsylvania podcast more episodes to come and we will talk to you next time. Thank you very much.

Building PA Podcast: Season 1 – Episode 4: Building a Safety Culture the Alexander Way

ABOUT THIS EPISODE: Since the KCA and its contractor members are renowned for safety excellence, we wanted to showcase safety with our podcast. Alexander Building Construction Company has a proud history especially when it comes to safety. Its founder, H.B. Alexander, was a pioneer in the area of construction safety and he was an active and early member of the Associated General Contractors of America’s Safety Committee in the 1950’s (two decades before OSHA was established and decades before construction companies placed safety as a priority.) Something tells me that Mr. Alexander would be proud of the work that its current safety director, Darren Rech, does to build a safety culture with the company. To hear the interview visit: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/safety-alexander-building-and-construction/id1506259467?i=1000470794135

Jon O’Brien (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Building PA Podcast, a podcast for construction professionals living right here in the great state of Pennsylvania. I am one of your co-hosts, I’m Jon O’Brien from the Keystone Contractors Association and I’m joined by my other cohost.

Chris Martin:

Alright, this is Chris Martin with Atlas Marketing. We tell stories for people who build things.

Jon O’Brien:

We have an excellent episode today, you know we’ve touched on so many topics whether it’s on workforce development, legislation, construction contracts, but I think, well, when we talk about safety, nothing beats construction safety…and we have a Bonafede superstar in the area of safety, Darren Rech from Alexander Building Construction. Welcome Darren.

Darren Rech:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Chris Martin:

Yeah, so one thing when we started with this podcast is, you know, we wanted to make sure to touch on a lot of construction industry topics.

Chris Martiin (01:04):

And when it comes to safety, we have this series and reminding other contractors just to get their feedback and their comments related to building a safety culture. So, you know, welcome to the podcast. And let’s talk about building a safety culture. What do you say, Darren? You ready?

Darren Rech:

Sure. Yeah.

Jon O’Brien:

Do you have any comments for our crowd or audience?

Darren Rech:

Not necessarily. I guess. My experience in construction is over 12 years in various managerial roles and I actually have a safety science degree from IUP, so I actually went to school for safety. And you know, I’ve been doing it now for geez, almost 30 years. So in various industries.

Jon O’Brien:

And how long have you been at Alexander?

Darren Rech:

So it’ll be in June, it’ll be seven years with Alexander as a safety director. Okay, thank you. Yes, we cover State College and Harrisburg and the surrounding regions, you know, York, Lancaster Williamsport, if necessary, wherever the job is, that’s where I go.

Jon O’Brien (02:22):

Okay. So your corporate wide with Alexander, you’re the safety guru, correct?

Darren Rech:

That’s correct. My title is Safety Director. We have at Alexander, a project in Mechanicsburg, the Hampton medical center project. It’s a Penn State Health project and we have a site safety coordinator on that particular project in State College. We had a site safety coordinator on our Paterno library project. And since that project completed, we have her moving around to different jobs in that State College region. So sort of helps. And she does a lot of the site assessments and whatever’s needed on those particular projects in that region.

Jon O’Brien:

Well, that’s a good place to start. So let’s talk about the two people you were mentioning there. How do you build a safety culture within them? You know, how do you coach them?

Darren Rech (03:24):

Yeah so my approach personally is one of coaching and mentoring. I’m not necessarily a, there were days of safety cops if you will, back years ago. And in this day and age with the workforce and different types of people working, really the method to get through to people is through coaching and mentoring and really just having an opportunity to build alliances with these people and build a rapport and build relationships you know, rather than the old yelling method or throwing somebody off the job. So that’s sort of my approach with our two site safety coordinators and they’ve done a good job adapting to our industry, especially the building construction and have come a long way and just, you know, sending that message out to their folks on their particular projects and in our region as well.

Jon O’Brien:

So you get a sense and you see that the buy in is there, you know, the people, your two safety professionals buying into the safety culture.

Darren Rech (04:27):

Yes, absolutely. You know, we have owners and we have some important owners who, who really value safety. And so when we can provide a site safety coordinator, you know, on one project, that’s pretty rare. Usually it’s one person per company hitting, you know, multiple jobs and doing site assessments and, you know, compliance regulatory assessments, things like that. So when you have multiple people, you know, you can create more of a focus on safety and you can drill down a lot more and into the training incident investigation, site assessments, and, you know, just have a well rounded safety program.

Chris Martin (05:05):

Do you find that the employees outside of the safety department are embracing safety? I mean, I I’ve been working in construction for about 30 years, just like you. And it seems to be this. Everybody might not love everybody, but everybody knows it’s of importance. Everybody recognizes how vital it is to the job site, but do people really buy into that safety culture?

Darren Rech (05:36):

Yeah, that’s a great question. And in reality, you have buy-in at various levels. Certain individuals will buy into it more so than others. And I find also that certain project teams will buy into safety more so than others. They’ll support the safety approach. They’ll do the initiatives that we typically set out for on those particular project. So, you know, it’s constantly up and down and we push this buying on a constant basis. And again, it’s really a lot of chemistry between the project teams and you hope that you have a team that a few people are buying into it and at least take the lead on safety for that particular project, because the way we’re set up is just really the site safety supers. I’m sorry, the site superintendent is in charge of safety, ultimately, but we have project managers, we have project engineers and also carpenters working on these projects.

Darren Rech (06:41):

So our approach is really to encourage everybody to buy into safety and have a stake in the safety approach. If you see something step up and do something to fix it. So that’s really our method of safety and communication is if you see something, make sure you step up, it’s not just the superintendent’s job. So that’s really what we try to push here.

Chris Martin:

And to that point, what are some best practices that you’ve seen instituted or are looking to institute at Alexander as it relates to that buy in?

Darren Rech:

So typically some of the methods we’ve incorporated where just tool box talks, for instance to discuss a task with your teams performance, or a morning huddle to discuss what task you’re going to do that week and have a review of that task and sign off by each team member.

Darren Rech (07:44):

So everybody has buy in. We also do what’s called a job safety analysis and really what that entails is reviewing what the hazards are for the task you are about to complete. So “do you have the right equipment for the job?” “Has everyone understood what is needed?” “Does everyone understand the hazards?” And so as a team, you have different levels of experience. Some guy might be working for 30 plus years. You may have a guy who’s, you know, maybe less than a year in the industry. So there’s such a variety of experience. And really what we’re trying to do is between each team member just communicate what the hazards are that they see and make sure they understand how they’re going to approach that. And what did we do to eliminate or minimize the hazard? So the job safety analysis, and we call it the thing card is something that we really push.

Darren Rech (08:39):

And we want to make sure that we understand what tasks the hazards are before we jump into the tasks. So oftentimes when I do incident investigations, a lot of times the correct or the root cause was some something to the effect of, well, we just, you know, we did something stupid or we knew better. And so, you know, many times, if they would just think through the task and pause before doing something, then often you get a good positive result. So that’s what we constantly encourage is the JSA – job safety analysis. Another thing we do on a monthly basis, we typically have what’s called a site safety stand down, and we will have a huddle. And it entails a group of foreman carpenters. It could be a project managers and we all walk the site together and we look for observations with deficiencies and things that need corrected and also you know, just pointing out things of areas of improvement.

Darren Rech (09:47):

And it’s a real collaborative approach. No, one’s yelling at each other or finger pointing. So it’s real positive buy in from everybody. And we typically do that once a month and, you know, we would buy lunch, maybe it’s you know, grilling hot dogs or hamburgers on the grill and you stand around and talk safety for maybe an hour, hour and a half with everybody on the job site. And so the personnel working, they typically have a good feedback response to us and you know, it’s well received. So it’s been an effective way of promoting safety and thinking about what they’re doing before they jump into their tasks.

Jon O’Brien:

Would you say everyone on the job site? So you’re including subs, consultants, anyone that might be on the site?

Darren Rech:

Yeah, that’s correct. So at Alexander we’re a construction manager and we have mostly subcontractors on our project. So these walk throughs will be mostly subcontractors. Oftentimes the owner will jump in and join us, but primarily it’s Alexander and our subcontractors and the owner at certain times.

Jon O’Brien:

For the client, what’s the owner’s take on not only the walkthrough, but the culture of safety at Alexander?

Darren Rech (11:10):

Yeah. So, you know, more and more these days, we’re finding owners who really look at safety and the culture of safety within your company. What we have is in every company what’s called an experience modification rating, and it’s a number used by insurance companies to gauge both past costs, injuries, and risk, or chances of risk. So the lower, the EMR of your business, the lower your workers’ compensation insurance premiums will be. And so what we’re finding is a lot of owners are really looking at that number. So if you have an EMR, for instance, of 1.0, that’s considered the average. And so to mitigate the insurance risk, they raised the workers’ comp premiums when your EMR starts creeping up over 1.0, right? And so, you know, the bad news is the, as an EMR increases, it sticks with you for about three years.

Darren Rech (12:14):

So it doesn’t go away after say a year. And as I said, more and more clients are starting to look at that that particular number. And you know, I sort of use the analogy, if you have your auto insurance premium, you know, on your personal vehicle, then you get into maybe two or three accidents a year. You know, what happens with your premiums, they shoot up, right? So the same thing is the case for workers’ comp insurance. And again, a lot of companies, a lot of owners, clients are starting to look at that EMR a little closely when they do their due process for a particular project. So it’s a very important number.

Jon O’Brien (13:13):

I heard on a conference call recently a comment, from I think a General Contractor from New York City I believe, and he made the comment that these young professionals that are coming out of a school they have been born and raised to talk safety. Their entire lives safety’s all around them. They’re always thinking about everything around them, and the educational process is doing a great job of preaching safety. It’s the old timers on the job site, it’s the guys that have been there forever and they’re like, Oh, I’m just doing it this way and I’ve always done it that way, you know? So yeah I’d like to get your feedback on that comment.

Darren Rech:

Yeah. That’s you know, it’s interesting. And I mentioned earlier, my approach to safety is more coaching and mentoring. And, you know, as we grow older into this business of safety and in some of our industry experience and your dad’s move on, you know, I’m seeing a shifting culture from that mentality. These, you know, a lot of these guys are getting older and they’re starting to feel their aches and pains and things like that that are creeping up after years of working in the construction industry.

Darren Rech (14:13):

So, you know, they’re starting to appreciate safety a little bit more, which is interesting. So it makes our job a little easier because they’re open to safety, suggestions and ideas to make their job easier. So, you know, ironically, I’m hearing a little bit less of the, you know, this is the way I’ve done it for 30 years now approach. So it’s been good and it’s been refreshing. And I think the culture of the industry starting to shift a little bit more towards that, you know, let’s do something safely and, and easier so we can, you know, go home safer.

Jon O’Brien:

Absolutely. And are you saying that too, amongst the younger professionals, their safety conscience too?

Darren Rech (15:16):

Yeah, it’s interesting. A lot of the folks coming out of the union halls and just entering industry in general you know, carpenters, electricians, plumbers laborers, most of these folks have the OSHA 30 hour training or the OSHA 10 hour training at least. So it’s been a good training for these folks. And, you know, I noticed on some of our projects that the owner will actually require that anyone working must be trained by a licensed OSHA 30 hour trainer, as well as maybe the labor has the OSHA 10 hour training. So there’s certainly a requirement from owners that a certain level of safety, the training is completed. And so that’s been a great plus as well, as far as culture and maintaining the safe culture.

Jon O’Brien:

I think it was maybe a year or two ago, you approached me, Dan, you approached me and mentioned a topic I’d never heard of before – Prevention Through Design. Is that still active on your radar? And if so is it a needed process during construction. And do you wanna explain what that is first of all?

Darren Rech (16:17):

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Prevention Through Design is you know, it’s a concept that’s been around for years and it has a little bit of a change in name, but ultimately what the concept fundamentally is one that you think of safety. You know, I’ll take building construction, for instance. You think of safety during the design of the building throughout the construction of the building, as well as the life cycle, after we’ve finished the building and the end user comes into occupy this building. We think of safety all through it from cradle to grave, basically. So, you know, we obviously want to work safely while we’re building it, but when we give up the project and the building is complete, and we turn it over to the owner who has folks who need to work daily in this building, or you know, different types of maintenance folks, they have to maintain this building and how do they do it in a safe manner?

Darren Rech (17:21):

So Prevention Through Design is really a concept of, you know, making sure that gauges, switches, light pictures and anything that must be maintained can be maintained in a safe manner. So the elimination of ladders, you know, maybe it’s a light the community lowered, so the bulb can be changed or maintained. And so, you know, the concept of just minimizing the risk is really what PTD is. And we continue to push that on all of our projects and we do it in different levels. It depends what the owners buy in from a safety standpoint and what they’re willing to spend with the design phase. So it varies in different degrees. You know, PTD is typically on one of our projects, but you know, we certainly continue to push it as a company and the certain requirements. So kind of in a nutshell, that’s what PTD is.

Jon O’Brien:

So it varies depending on who the owner is?

Darren Rech (18:34):

Yeah, varies, I guess of what it could involve. The occupants would be involved in the Prevention Through Design process and kind of let their opinions weigh in. Got some, right. Yeah, yeah. Really it’s driven by the owner. So the owner may say if, for instance, if the owner hires the architect, they, as well as the engineers, they really push the architects and engineers to design a building that’s safe, you know, for instance, a parapet wall should be at 39 inches. And of course there’s a cost to that. But if the owner is pushing the architect to design that building, regardless of cost, you know, you may have typically a 12 inch parapet wall on a rooftop. So if you can raise it to 39 inches, the folks who need to get out on that roof and maintain equipment and things like that can do so without fall protection, because you already have that parapet wall at the required height. So that’s an example of PTD and how the owner can certainly push it down the community to the architect and engineer, so to design it to be a safe building.

Chris Martin (19:44):

That’s a really interesting concept. I know when I worked for a contractor out in the central part of the state where your headquarters are, nothing against that company, but that just wasn’t happening at the time and that wasn’t a thought of how to you know, it was just, here are your keys, we’re onto the next project. And literally pulling together the ability to think beyond that is a heck of a great service for your customers. And as well as the people that are going to ultimately work in there beyond just the building and the trades and the other folks. So kudos to you guys for that.

Darren Rech (20:27):

Yeah. And that’s a great point too, cause I think really that that’s a key part of safety culture. And within Alexander, we have executive leadership who pushes safety. We have a parent company based in Allentown, Pennsylvania, and, you know that’s our parent company. And from our parent company down to Alexander’s executive leadership throughout, we have multiple safety directors. And so, you know, they’re really encouraging to know that they’re pushing safety and they make our life easier when, you know, they expect safe work projects and people were considerably. So, and they typically give us the resources as safety directors to do our job and, and do what’s needed to keep working safely. So, you know, really it did call it true from an Alexander standpoint.

Jon O’Brien:

That’s good. I’m guessing along that process too, there’s some good best practice sharing between your businesses and the safety professionals.

Darren Rech (21:35):

Yeah, yeah, that’s correct. And you know, in fact, we’re having a safety director meeting next Tuesday and the safety directors from each region basically get together. We typically do try to do one on a quarterly basis or at least, you know, twice a year. And we talk about best practices, what each region is doing for safety, sharing ideas and just really a good general discussion on safety on you know, where resources are needed and how we can do a better job and improve our project safety. It’s a great opportunity. And I, and again, it goes back to our executive leadership, you know, enabling us to do that and providing resources of your time away from projects and working on these ideas and concepts and making sure we can share these ideas.

Chris Martin:

It definitely starts at the top. Doesn’t it?

Darren Rech (22:33):

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. There’s no question that’s you know, if you don’t have good leadership in place who focuses on safety it makes it really difficult for everyone you know, working down to work safely and to really buy into it. So certainly starts at the top.

Chris Martin:

Well, that’s something we want to do also with this Building PA Podcast, do a lot of best practice sharing. We want to give good stories, good answers, hopefully something in there, some company or some construction professional heard something that the light bulb went on. And, Oh, that’s a great idea. You know, we should try that. So we’re constantly want to drive home safety on this podcast. And safety these days is not something that is sort of copied, right. You know, in the past, people wanted to keep their ideas, you know, because they were their ideas.

Darren Rech (23:31):

And nowadays I see a lot more sharing of ideas with safety to promote safety just between different directors and you know, safety professionals everybody’s willing to share their ideas or, you know, help each other out. And that certainly goes a long way with a more safety. And, you know, especially in the construction industry, it’s a pretty tight knit industry. So when you have different professionals helping each other, you know, helps us individually. And that certainly happens. And you know, at least with Alexander and a lot of the subcontractors that we work with, that’s it professional. So, so yeah, it’s really helpful. And you know, again, it’s about building, building a relationships and, and trust between each other.

Chris Martin (24:24):

Well, Darren, thank you for taking time to talk safety with us. I know we’d love to have you come back on and we can continue to have this conversation on safety. We can reach out to you in the future and have you back on the Building PA Podcast. That would be fantastic. Thank you. Brought a lot of great insight and best practices clearly from the Alexander Company. So thank you for that and thanks for your time.

Jon O’Brien (24:53):

Yeah. Thanks, Darren.

Darren Rech:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me guys have a good day. Thank you, you too.

Building PA Podcast: Season 1 – Episode 2: COVID-19 Impact on PA’s Construction Industry

NOTE: This COVID-19 conversation was recorded on April 1, 2020; a lot has changed since then. For more information visit Building PA Podcast.

Chris Martin (00:01):

Welcome to the Building PA Podcast, a podcast specifically for the construction industry and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. I am Co-Host Chris Martin with Atlas Marketing, where we tell stories for people who build things. And I’m with my partner, Jon O’Brien.

Jon O’Brien:

Hey everyone. How’s it going, Jon O’Brien from the Keystone Contractors Association based right here in good old central Pennsylvania. Hello, Chris.

Chris Martin:

Hello, Jon. Hey, I know that you have been a busy these days, and I know that, you know, our topic today is a very timely, special topic. We are going to be talking about, and Jon has been instrumental in this. So I get the tables are turned a little bit here. This isn’t our normal interview process, but today we’re going to talk about the Coronavirus and its impact on the construction industry. And like I said, Jon has been integral and very, very busy to say the least for the last few weeks. And even though this is not a typical Building PA Podcast topic, we want to start with this and share as much information as we can through the podcast platform. So, Jon, I know that the Keystone Contractors Association and GCAP, the General Contractors Association of Pennsylvania have been very, very instrumental in helping get the industry back to work these last few weeks, but can you explain for our listeners the difference between the KCA and the GCAP associations?

Jon O’Brien (01:50):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s probably good because there does seem to be a lot of confusion with the two different groups. So yeah, KCA, the Keystone Contractors Association is a full service construction trade association. We offer typical services that contractor associations offer like labor relations, safety services, marketing, community service, you name it, we’re pretty busy, pretty active helping our members. That’s KCA. So, yeah, KCA was founded in 1940. And as far as GCAP, which is the General Contractor Association of Pennsylvania, GCAP is an association of associations. So KCA is a member of GCAP. And our other level one members include the Master Builders Association in Pittsburgh and in Philadelphia, the General Building Contractors Association and GCAP’s primary and main purpose is to be the advocate for the commercial construction industry. Let me make that clear commercial construction industry, because that adds some confusion as well. When you mix in residential and people think we cover it all, but no, we’re busy enough just in the commercial world. Yeah.

Chris Martin (03:19):

That is more than enough time, effort and energy to be put toward one at one element.

Jon O’Brien (03:24):

Yeah. So, the for the staff, I double as the executive director of both KCA and GCAP, and I’m also the registered lobbyist for GCAP. So don’t hold that lobbyist thing against me, you know,

Chris Martin (03:40):

And, and more importantly you, that lobbyist hat has been in on your head for quite some time now for the last couple of weeks regarding the pandemic that we’re in, but can you give us an update on what GCAP is doing, but maybe some other associations are coming together to really work for the industry. Can you tell us what’s been going on?

Jon O’Brien (04:04):

Absolutely. If you like, why don’t I start with the work shut down. Governor Wolf posted the Executive Order on Thursday, March 19th, leading up to that Thursday afternoon, there was talk, you know, earlier in that week, and even the week before this might be coming, you know, once we heard NHL canceled and they’re not canceled, but postpone season of Major League Baseball, you know, all these big corporate events everything’s shutting down there is rumblings and a lot of rumors that construction might be shutting down as well. And out of the blue, out of nowhere on a Thursday evening governor Wolf just imposed a workstop of all nonessential businesses and per his administration’s classification, construction was listed as a non-essential classification. So being that, you know, I have a hundred members of KCA, and then you factor in GCAP with another 700 construction members….

Jon O’Brien (05:12):

So Thursday night, I think the Executive Order was issued around 4:00 PM or so an hour before the work day shut down. And from four o’clock till, probably two in the morning, I was on the phone all night, receiving text messages, emails. “What’s this mean” “what’s going on?” And there was no heads up that this was going to happen. As you could expect, because this was such a drastic measure, the communication did not stop Friday either. So it’s a Friday, yeah we had tons of questions Friday morning. About 7:00 AM I had a conference call with Labor & Industry. You know the while the Executive Order came in on Thursday, all work was to cease, I think, close the business that Friday, the 20th, and then it was extended to Monday the 23rd. But regardless of that time period, we got most of that and there were some issues with inspections because we already had counties that were getting hit pretty hard by the Coronavirus. So we had some issues and L&I was telling their inspectors, if there is any hesitation at all, and you don’t feel comfortable inspecting a job site, you know, do not go, just use your best judgment. From members they were saying the use of their best judgment meant none of them are showing up.

Jon O’Brien (06:48):

Yeah. So there were some major Philadelphia projects and they wanted to find out what was going on. So we scheduled this call first thing in the morning with Labor & Industry. And we’re, the call was just intent, designed to talk about inspections and how will the inspection process work during this, during this shutdown? And we were wondering, is it possible to do like virtual inspections? Is that even a possibility? And we’re still looking into that. But then at the same time with this shutdown and earlier in the week, other businesses were shuttering down. And this led to a, I think a five thousand unemployed, I got the numbers in my head. They’re all jumbled together, but there was something like 75,000 unemployment cases within the unemployment office in one day.

Jon O’Brien (07:47):

And then that just added up every day that first week. So Monday the 16th, 17th, 18th, I think by the end of the week, they were over 500,000. So that call that we just wanted to talk about inspections. We had tons of questions about unemployment compensation and, you know what should we be getting out to our members? What should employers be doing? What should their employees be doing? And, Oh, it was a crazy day that Friday. And then it did not ease up on Saturday, Saturday, the 21st, we had some good email exchanges and some good conference calls with GCAP and other government organizations. And now I was talking to a lot of labor leaders as well, and collectively amongst all of us, you know, labor-management, we decided that a good route to kick off our plan of action would be for GCAP and the Pennsylvania Construction Trades Council should send a joint letter signed by labor and management and send that Governor Wolf.

Jon O’Brien (08:54):

So Sunday the president of the Building Trades, my good buddy, Frank, Frank Sirianni. I hope you’re listening Frank. Frank and I swapped emails and texts and phone calls all day that Sunday, that would be what, I think March 22nd. We wanted to put together a nice communication to the governor and why we felt construction is essential to our economy and to our society and why we thought construction should keep working. So yeah, we finished late night, you know, midnight or so on Sunday, we had a product we were happy with. We sent it to the GCAP Board and were like there’s not a lot of time to review this, but let me know if you’re okay with this. Next thing, you know, Monday morning, March 23rd, some of the leaders on both sides, labor and management, weren’t quite sure if we should be reacting so fast to this shutdown order and, you know, there is talk about, should we let the dust settle a little?

Jon O’Brien (09:59):

I mean, we’re inside learning about this COVID-19 and the whole pandemic. We’re still learning about this. Are we really doing the right thing? You know, pushing the economy to move forward as if this doesn’t exist, you know, we should just ignore it and just keep working, you know, so there was a lot of questions internally, you know, and ultimately we couldn’t come to a decision. So we decided just to, just to sit back a little bit and let the dust settle. And when I say sit back, I mean, sit back on side of the lobbying. So while we were sitting out on the lobbying game, we kind of shifted our attention towards the area of safety and you know, through GCAP we’re rather fortunate to have that partnership with Master Builders and the General Building Contractors in Philadelphia. We’re fortunate to be partners with those two great associations. And we created within probably three, four days, maybe a week, we created the Pennsylvania COVID-19 Response Plan for Construction,

Chris Martin (11:19):

Excuse me, I know it’s good I’ve seen that plan. And not only is it thorough but it, it lays out a solid way for the industry to showcase not only how important this is to our industry, but more importantly, the level of intensity that we’re taking this as it should be.

Jon O’Brien (11:49):

Yeah. I mean, the plan is pretty awesome, you know, I mean, you saw it, but hopefully our audience as too. We’ve posted it online. It’s on our website. It’s kind of all over the place. I believe through the Master Builders and their Director of Safety Bob McCall. And I believe in Bob used a lot of connections and a lot of his relationships through the Associated General Contractors. He used those relationships to kind of form what I was calling the dream team of safety. I mean, they had safety professionals from across the country come together to really create this plan. And it’s awesome from details all the way down to making sure your autos and all sorts of transportation devices are cleaned daily make sure 24 hours a day, they were cleaned. You don’t see too many safety plans that go that into detail.

Chris Martin (12:49):

Yeah. That was one thing that I was shocked when I saw was just the level of detail that cleanliness comes into. And let’s be honest.

Jon O’Brien (12:58):

Yeah.

Chris Martin (12:58):

Our industry is not exactly the cleanest. So, you know well, Jon, let me ask you this, as far as the, you know, that process that you’ve gone through has there been any I mean, obviously there’s been a lot of progress since that initial announcement from Governor Wolf, but on the legislative front, can you explain a little bit about what not only the KCA and the GCAP is doing, but where things could potentially go as it relates to the industry?

Jon O’Brien (13:32):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So early on when the shut down order came, there was a process that the governor allowed to have projects get waived, you know, and they could proceed. Yeah. So there is a lot of confusion with these projects cause you had similar projects submitted by contractors and some were approved, some were denied. You had elected officials, you know, state reps telling contractors if your project gets denied, resubmit it again, because a different set of eyes might see it a different way. And sure enough, you know, projects were getting submitted and approved the second time. So it was, it was crazy.

Jon O’Brien (14:21):

Yeah. And then further confusing the matter was this past Friday. So that would have been what I forget what the, my phone’s a little slow…the 27th. So Friday the 27th in the evening people within the governor’s office were sending emails out to the industry saying that K-12 school construction work is now allowed to proceed assuming they get approval at the local level. So school districts would have to approve this process. And we had that added another layer of confusion because there’s a lot of contractors that submitted waivers for projects

Jon O’Brien (15:12):

You know, they were denied in some cases, in most cases, I think all school was denied up until the 27th. So they were denied and then schools, we had schools out in the Pittsburgh area, tell contractors, just keep working. You don’t have to worry about that waiver process. And we’re like, what? And then you get this one line statement from the governor’s office that Friday night saying, you know you’re allowed to proceed if approved at the local level. And we’re like do we need more proof than just this little email? I don’t know. It’s not even that the top official, you know, it’s like, you know, a couple levels down, they sending this email.

Chris Martin (15:50):

You know you have been working your tail off here along with so many others that are in the industry. And, I want to emphasize how much I appreciate not only what you’re doing, but what everybody is doing to help move this along. But are you, you mentioned earlier there was a, a little bit of a, you know, some contractors say, “hey, wait a second are we doing the right thing here?” Are you seeing that there is a I don’t want to say a separation if you will, between the industry one being, “Hey, let’s get back to work.” The others, “maybe we shouldn’t be doing this.”

Jon O’Brien (16:40):

Yeah, I’m seeing that, but I think a good thing for our cause was creating that safety plan and we had some legislators in both the Senate and the House that want to legislate the industry returning to work, which I personally, I don’t believe that’s the right route to take. I think that would take too long. I think the better approach would be leaders in both chambers and industry leaders sit down with the governor and his staff and, you know, talk their way through. Cause we keep saying, you know, along with a safety plan

Jon O’Brien (17:21):

Much like the schools can work because you know, schools are shut down for who knows how long, at least until the end of April. So those projects can proceed because, you know, there’s a trust that the industry knows how to operate safely and there’s no students and there’s no faculty within those schools. And I think that same logic should be applied to the entire industry. And if projects are currently halted, you know, halfway through the project and the business has shut down, there’s going to be no harm to the community or the occupants, so the industry should be able to get in there assuming they have a good safety plan, which is part of the K through 12, the school districts approach, the plan at the local level was okay, the governor’s office is giving us the authority to proceed. Our only requirement is we want to see your social distancing safety plan and we want to approve it. And I actually heard just yesterday, there was a handful of contractors that submitted our GCAP safety plan as their company safety plan. And it was approved every time. So that was always good to hear when you spend time creating something and knowing it’s getting used within the industry.

Chris Martin (18:39):

Yeah, absolutely. Especially with such a quick turnaround. Well, let’s just get this because this is a thought that’s been kind of percolating in my head, but potentially when we are back to a, some level of normalcy, not only within the industry, but you know in society as a whole, has there been any talk about what are the steps when we get back to that normalcy? In other words you know, Governor Wolf said, okay we’re going to start off with no big groups of 200. Then it went down to a hundred, then it went to 50 then to 10 and then everybody stay at home. Is there a ramping up? Have you heard that there’s a ramping up process or are we still too early in this process to figure out how we’re going to get back to work?

Jon O’Brien (19:35):

Well they are letting some highway projects resume. I thought that was a no brainer because they’re outside. And when you drive by a highway project, I’m not a highway construction expert by any means, but when you drive by, you don’t see people on top of each other, they’re pretty spread out in the field. So there’s the social distance aspect is covered there. So yeah, let’s approve some projects to proceed. I believe they letting 61 this week and I’m hearing there’s going to be more as far as like I said, the school districts, they’re now in the process of approving projects to proceed. We’ve actually approached the administration and leaders in both the House and the Senate and said, projects are, like I said earlier, if a location doesn’t have any occupants in it, the industry should be able to proceed. I heard word from some legislators that we should legislate, you know, only 10 people on a project at one time, and I don’t know how you quite do that. You know, it sounds like, kind of Russia to me, you know, like how many people can go inside a building and I think that decision’s up to the GC and the subcontractors to manage their workforce.

Chris Martin (20:59):

Yeah. And obviously with a safety plan in place, or at least maybe it’s not GCAP plans that people are using, but their own individual plans. Yeah. There is a policy, but has there also been talks with more on the legal side cause this, that was my first concern when we started talking about job sites, getting shut down and those type of things, we have that with our clients too. But has there been any conversation from a standpoint of contracts and, you know, a start date is now let’s, let’s say this, the pandemic goes into May. That’s my stating this for the conversation. I’m not saying that’s what it is. But if it goes into May and there are job sites that were, or jobs that were supposed to be completed in May, what would be the impact to the actual completion of that project?

Jon O’Brien (22:02):

Yeah. I mean those questions are coming in. It’s just going to be a legal nightmare to answer your questions. It’s going to be, you’re listening to our podcasts. I mean, you have worries about the supply chain and, you know, is the material pricing gonna increase, contract and might’ve estimated steel at X. And now with all the, the issues when the industry comes out full tilt, you know, that price might be jacked up a little bit and, how’s that going to be adjusted? And you mentioned the schedules, how are the schedules going to be adjusted? And then, manpower within the unions I’m hearing now that the unions are creating two lists, a list of people that want to work during the pandemic and people that do not want to work.

Jon O’Brien (23:03):

So now as more projects go, there is a contractor able to work, but do they have enough people and as more projects come out, you’re going to need more people. Yeah. And then plus factor in the projects that can proceed now, the healthcare emergency repairs, the waiver approved projects, the PennDOT projects, there’s more and more projects. And I’m getting word this week that some subs’ workers just aren’t showing up. There was a project in a Harrisburg area where the whole subcontractor team didn’t show up. And they said, we feel as if we’re putting our family at risk by working at this time. And so I mean, legally, what do you do there? I mean, yeah, yeah.

Chris Martin (23:54):

It definitely kind of adds a whole different level to contract management and contract administration. Yeah. Cause I know I’ve talked with other business owners who have said, you know we’re leaving it up to our employees and if they feel like they’re putting themselves in danger or harming their family, you know, there’s also that element. And I know we’re not really gonna talk about this now, cause we’re focusing on the industry, but you know, the element of pay over periods of time, I’ve had people ask me about, you know, our business at Atlas Marketing and how is the pandemic impacting our business? And fortunately for us, for me, my response is, well, you know, it’s impacting us, but it’s not impacting us as much as it is the industries that we work in.

Chris Martin (24:50):

And so, you know, but it’s interesting to hear how other business owners are addressing it. And that comes back to the whole contract administration aspect because that’s going to change the way that things are. Jon, let me ask you this, where do you see this going, like from again from your efforts on the working with the administration with Governor Wolf and his team and other association leaders as well as trade and industry leaders, where do you see this going? Like what do you think are the next steps here?

Jon O’Brien (25:26):

So we had a GCAP call, I think that was about a week ago or so. And you know, they asked where do I see it going? And I said, well let me get out my crystal ball here, let’s see what’s going on here. So I’m kinda off a few days: I thought all highway work would start this past Monday, but it started today I guess. Okay. So I was off a day or two. And then I thought the sixth, this upcoming Monday, I thought that would be a full two week for the shutdown and all projects construction would resume. And then I that all construction would resume Monday the sixth. So I thought it would be highway the first week and then commercial building the next week. But now that these numbers are coming in and Governor Wolf does seem pretty firm in his stance, which is good. You know, he’s trying to do what he thinks his best for the health of Pennsylvania. Sure. It might’ve been a knee jerk reaction at first. Maybe we could have eased into it a little bit more, but, but still, I mean, he has the right intentions.

Jon O’Brien (26:44):

I’m thinking now maybe like the 13th, I think we might need another solid week, you know, of all workers coming back. Okay. Just so you know, as you hear every day in the news, as we needed another week to flatten the curve. So we couldn’t have an interview on the coronavirus without talking about the curve.

Chris Martin (27:05):

That is true. I honestly never heard of that phrase until you know, March of 2020, so

Jon O’Brien (27:12):

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. But still our stance, I mean, that’s me personally, that’s my opinion personally, but within GCAP, you know, the stance is if a project’s unoccupied right now, the industry should be in there finishing the project.

Chris Martin (27:31):

Well on behalf of everyone who works in the construction industry. I thank you for your efforts. I know that you and other association and Building Trades and industry leaders have been working extremely long hours and dedicating yourselves to moving our industry to where it was just a few weeks ago. But thank you. And thank you for sharing this information with us. And as we continue, we’ll provide updates but you know, feel free to download more episodes. We have other episodes of Building PA Podcast available and thank you for listening. And Jon, thank you again for all your efforts.

Jon O’Brien (28:18):

You bet. And if anyone out there has any questions, concerns, comments, and wants to reach me. My email is Jon@keystonecontractors.com or give me a call. Either way, I’m here for you.

Chris Martin (28:33):

Perfect. And then I can attest that he is there. We’ve had so many calls just between he and I just on podcast related information that have been rescheduled or pushed to another day. And I can attest to Jon’s effort for the industry. So again well done and thank you.

Chris Martin (28:54):

Separations Act Legislation Advances in the PA House: Does Dan Jalboot know about this?

Pennsylvania is one step closer to making it easier to construct high-performance public buildings with the passage of House Bill 163 in the House State Government Committee.

With a passage vote of 15-10, this Separations Act legislation will now move to the Pennsylvania House Floor. Enacted in 1913 the Separations Act is a requirement that mandates the public sector must bid and award to at least four prime contractors for one project. The named primes in the Act are: General Trades, Plumbing, HVAC, and Electrical. When enacted over a century ago, there were payment concerns from Contractors to their Subcontractors, so the major Subcontractors were made Primes. Over the years the General Assembly has enacted many important pieces of legislation to ensure payment is made to all firms that provide construction services, rending the Separations Act needless.

Pennsylvania is the only state left in the country that abides by a multiple prime delivery system and after the recent HB163 vote we’re one step closer to ending that unwanted title. It’s exciting news for Pennsylvania’s construction industry as we can now work towards educating the public sector on all the many great advancements of the industry on topics like: Construction Management At Risk, Design Build, Design Assist, Lean Construction, to name a few. Through legislation enactment, different delivery options can be considered by the public that offer different entry points for the construction team which allows for collaboration to commence at various phases of the construction project.

When it comes to the Separations Act, my journey began in 2005. I was hired by a construction trade association and my boss at the time asked me if I had any government affairs experience. I said: “No but I’m willing to learn and work on whatever.” He returned with a stack of file folders that was around eight inches thick, dropped them on my desk, and said: “here’s some info on our top issue, the Separations Act. Study this stuff and keep in mind there’s a lot more info in our file cabinets: letters, studies, articles, you name it so read up on this stuff I’m giving you and grab more when you’re ready.”

I remember studying this information and thinking to myself: no one in the world builds multiple prime and I highly doubt an entire private sector would use a method that costs more so why does our state keep a law on the books that results in taxpayers overpaying for public construction due to an archaic law? This should be easy to repeal – I think people want government to spend less which means potentially we all could pay less in taxes. People want to pay less taxes, right? This was my ‘welcome to politics’ moment. Just because an issue may appear obvious, don’t fool yourself into thinking it can easily be changed. That thought was in 2005 and today, fourteen years later, a vote finally happened on the Separations Act.

Over the past years working on this issue, I’ve been fortunate to meet so many great construction professionals – both for and against a modernization of the Act. I could probably make this a series and discuss so many people that care about their construction industry, and who knows maybe I will revisit this topic and focus on a different person as this issue moves through the legislature. But today I’d like to focus on an architect who addressed this issue like no one else back in my early days of learning about the Separations Act. And honestly no one since has addressed the issue quite like him.

While I was learning about the Separations Act, my old work first suggested we form a coalition. We had so many public owner organizations that wanted this law changed as well as other contractor, engineer and architect organizations. I remember that AIA Pennsylvania was interested in joining the coalition, but first its executive director Caroline Boyce wanted to talk. We spoke, great conversation, super person, and she suggested I reach out to a Philadelphia architect named Dan Jalboot.

Up until I spoke with Dan, all of the feedback from everyone was something along the lines of Pennsylvania can save money if we repeal this Act. I called Dan and he told me that the Separations Act impedes green construction in our state – THIS WAS IN 2005, BEFORE IT WAS HIP TO BE ON THE GREEN BANDWAGON. Dan would say that yes, our state can save money by repealing the Act, but more importantly we can improve the chances of constructing environmentally-friendly buildings if we did not have to abide by a multiple prime delivery system. We should want our children to receive education in green buildings – it will bring out the best in them.

Dan sent me a few articles, stuff that was over my head back then. This helped to educate me. We had a few public hearings in those days and there were a lot of blank stares from legislators when he spoke, since green construction was not the norm back in mid 2000s like it is today. He would say stuff like: we need to look at the lifecycle of a building and stop looking only at construction costs; a building should be thought of as a single being with all systems working together and we can’t do that when an architect has to break a project into four pieces that must be meshed back together by strangers; construction needs collaboration from pre-construction through project closeout to truly benefit the environment, end users, and occupants. He would say how it’s very difficult to achieve collaboration in the multiple prime world since the architect is getting zero input from the builders when the design is being finalized and the public sector could benefit so much more if constructors could add their expertise during the design phase. (I just wish I would have hung on to his written testimonies that accompanied the hearings when he spoke. I’m just going off of memory and I’m sure he would sound so much better if I wrote it in his own exact words.)

A few years ago the U.S. Green Building Council rolled out its updated certification – LEEDv4. I saw that pre-construction meetings from the design and construction teams is now encouraged and points are achieved when it happens. This is what Dan was preaching about a decade earlier and a decade later it is still difficult to achieve in the Pennsylvania public construction market due to the Separations Act. Now that the Separations Act issue is moving in the General Assembly, and a vote on this issue was actually held for the first time in decades, I thought I’d jot down my thoughts and let Dan Jalboot know I thought about him today. Not sure if he’ll see this article, but with today’s vote I think our state is moving in the right direction to improve the quality of public buildings that are constructed.

NOTE: If you’d like to stay informed about the modernization effects of the Separations Act, please let me know. Jon@KeystoneContractors.com.

Coaches & The Career Journal

Life is beautiful. I’ve been fortunate to find myself in unique situations to receive mentoring and advice from some awesome people along the way. Starting with my parents who taught me to work hard for what I believe in to excellent leaders in the Navy to many construction executives, there are so many people who I’m fortunate to have encountered in life. And I’m lucky for learning some life lessons from these individuals.

In high school, I played football for two dynamic head coaches in Paul Cronin at Trinity and Rich Lichtel at Mechanicsburg. Coach Cronin was the first person in my life who truly incorporated input from all levels. With young minds, it’s typical for coaches to have the authoritarian attitude and run the team with zero input. I can recall my freshman year and we’re hanging in the game with powerhouse Bishop McDevitt – nobody gave us a chance (probably even many of the faithful green). During halftime, Cronin spent his time with the offensive unit just listening to the linemen talk about what plays we should run; this goes on while the running backs, receivers and I were staring in disbelief for being shunned from participating in the offensive game plan. At the time in the locker room we didn’t realize it, but Cronin was building team chemistry by involving those who seldom are asked for their opinions. Total team engagement. We ended up losing the game, but our team won in life that night and we were better off for the remainder of the season because of that halftime.

Over Thanksgiving break, I visited my aunt’s house only to learn that she’s downsizing and moving to a smaller home. Over the years, she collected some stuff from her nieces and nephews and now she’s in the process of returning these items. She gave me this gem that I haven’t seen in decades.

When it comes to Coach Lichtel, I feel like there’s nothing I can say that others in the central Pennsylvania area have not already said about this icon. He touched so many people. But for me, it was a very emotional time due mainly to the reason why I transferred high schools at the tail end of my sophomore year. I only knew of Lichtel as the region’s famous football coach and I never met him. When we did meet after I transferred, he and I just talked like we knew each other years. Coach Lichtel saw a young soul in me who was at a crossroads in life and he wanted to lift me up to a higher road. We would just talk…talk about anything and everything; geez did I enjoy those crazy stories of his from his younger days. Looking back, I now know how important this was since so many at the time saw me as just a ‘football player.’ This relationship carried on after high school into my Navy days when I would come home and visit with him just so we could talk.

I think due to such positive experiences with my high school football coaches, as I was maturing in life, I found myself studying successful coaches. I started out reading about the greats – Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Mike Shanahan, to name a few. I pulled some great advice as I learned about how these leaders operated.

Then I set out to learn more about the current football coaches. I constantly read articles about coaches to see if I can pull anything from them for tips I can apply in the business world. How do they manage and motivate people? How do they interact with others during the game, practice, community, etc.? From the current coaches I got some good quotes, tactics for team building, and great suggestions for books to read to gather more advice. But then IT happened.

In early 2007, the Pittsburgh Steelers hired Mike Tomlin. Since I’m a Steelers fan I spent a lot of time learning about this individual who was set to lead the Black & Gold. In articles and radio interviews, I learned about Tomlin’s career journals. Per the articles it was stated how he had a vision and he would jot down the way to achieve that vision. No detail was too small. He would write about how to conduct practices, team meetings, etc. All of these details and strategies were for when Tomlin landed his dream job so that he would be prepared to achieve greatness.

When I learned about Tomlin’s career journal, I was sold. You can’t just sit there and hope for your dream career to be given to you. You have to prepare for it. Now granted I wasn’t a little boy growing up in Mechanicsburg thinking: “I’d like to be a construction association executive.” However, that was the world I found myself in during my mid-20’s. Despite not setting out to work in this industry, I really enjoy it. Working for a Pittsburgh-based construction association, I sat through many board and committee meetings, educational seminars, networking events, community functions, etc. and after learning about Tomlin’s usage of keeping good notes, I started keeping a career journal. I created this career journal to put down in writing what I would do when I was running a construction association. I experienced many lessons learned over the years, and I jotted them down, but as with Tomlin no detail was too small.

When I was invited to interview for the position of Executive Director for the Keystone Contractors Association, I studied my notes and I came prepared to discuss the many ways that I felt this association could prosper. It was a very enjoyable experience that felt more like a few friends hanging out, swapping business stories and not a formal interview as it was. I still refer to this journal, adding to it so that the KCA can work towards being a better association.

My advice to my daughters is to think about where they want to go in life, a career journal is an excellent tool to help them get there. Maybe this journal could help others too.

Open Door Policy

In life I’ve heard this line many times: “I have an open-door policy.” Teachers, coaches, employers, politicians, etc. Many like to throw this line around, but do they mean it? Here’s an example of one individual who meant it, and as a result the rest of us (at least those in Pennsylvania) are better off because of it. Thanks Mike Turzai. Here’s the story:

During the summer of 2016, while living with my family in the suburbs of Pittsburgh, in the McCandless area, I was offered a job in the central PA area. After much thought and discussion with my wife and daughters, we decided to accept the position and move away from an area that has treated us great. We listed our Pittsburgh home for sale and began looking for a home in central PA.

13718711_10210116936505814_3209318682083209466_n — It’s signed! During the summer of 2016, we accepted the position of Executive Director for the Keystone Contractors Association. From this moment on, it was time to start the relocation process.

We had three offers the first day our home was on the market (McCandless is an awesome place to raise a family and Michelle Petty is a great realtor). We accepted an offer that was best for us, but the buyers could not close on the purchase for at least two months, which turned out to be good for us in that we could live in the home for longer than we expected to, and it gave us time to find the perfect place to live in central PA.

While we were living in the McCandless home, the buyers continued to prepare to buy it and an inspection was part of this process. More than a week after the home inspection was conducted, we received an email from the buyer’s real estate agent that contained the results of the inspection. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was a Sunday evening when the email arrived; it was a lengthy, 50-plus page report with bold, red-highlighted items that the inspector deemed as important; and a few pages into the report I saw a line that made my heart sink: “GAS LEAK detected not safe to live in.” Since I was living in the home, with the four people who are my world, I was speechless…wait WTF did I just read?!?!?! We left right away and spent the night at my aunt’s home, a few miles down the road.

The next morning, I was busy on the phone. I called the gas company first (Peoples Natural Gas was amazing as they arrived right away, and they had the gas leak issue resolved within the hour). Then I proceeded to speak to my realtor and an attorney friend of mine. I wanted to know why, if my family was in harm’s danger, did the home inspector not alert us. The response I received was that home inspectors are not legally obligated to notify anyone of unsafe conditions, like gas leaks. My first thought was that you would think a member of a society/country would feel morally obligated to let someone know about this, but unfortunately this was not the case. Then I called my Pennsylvania State Representative Mike Turzai.

Turzai is a friendly guy who you speak with at the North Allegheny High School Football games or you see walking down the streets in your neighborhood. He told me a few times over the years, while living in the district he represents, to not hesitate to contact him if I encounter any issues: “my door is open let me know if I can help.” So, I thought I’d take him up on the offer to see if he could help. Yes, my issue was resolved when I called him, and my family moved back in our home after the gas leak was fixed, but I do not want any other family to have to go through what I went through and fortunately for the rest of Pennsylvania, Turzai agreed and did not want anyone else to go through this serious issue either.

After thoroughly understanding the issue, Turzai and his staff were able to assist in modifying a home inspection piece of legislation that at the time was moving through the 2015/2016 Pennsylvania legislative session. Time ran out on this piece of legislation and when the session ended on December 31, 2016, the home inspection legislation died.

When the new year arrived, the Pennsylvania legislature introduced a new home inspection bill for the 2017/2018 session and the provision that we inserted requiring home inspectors to notify residents immediately if they are living in unsafe conditions carried forward to the next session as well. House Bill 1001 recently passed in the House of Representatives and it is now in the State Senate. While it’s a comprehensive bill that affects many aspects of the home inspection process, I for one am glad that it spells out how home inspectors are to act when encountering threats to health and safety.

One would think that a home inspector would notify a homeowner if they were living in an unsafe condition, but I found out that is not the case. It’s a good thing Mike Turzai has an open door policy and listens to the people he represents.